Should You Squat Below Parallel?
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[...] No race this week means strength training on the legs. I took (now professional strongman) Elliot’s advice and went for the full squat this week. I could instantly tell what I was missing. It clearly [...]
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LOVE IT!!!! We did some squates last night and I told my son to go parallel. Glad to get your advice…low we go!
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Dude, you are so funny! The “original squat”, and one of my favorite shooting positions. There is so much stuff out there about squatting more than parallel, made me paranoid. Saw Hunter hit 280 on bench, yesterday. Will be working on getting Trayton in there after season.
Regards,
Troy
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Good for you Elliott! Another myth busted! You are absolutely right on. I just read an article this morning talking about one of the top health problem in the US being Gastro-Intestinal Disorders. The rates are skyrocketing as we speak and expected to be the number one health concern in the next couple of years.
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Lmao that was a good video..And there is so much bullshit out there that at times is hard to figure out what is truth and what is well bullshit. Thanks Elliot for your vids.
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http://www.footballstrengthprogram.com/
Ass to grass, yas yas yas.
Amen Elliot
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Sounds good except no sources or studies of any kind were cited in the strength training world. If it can be proven that going A$$ to the floor causes faster strength gains and greater hypertrophy…then right on. But it actually takes greater muscle fiber recruitment to stop at parallel simulating a minnie static hold and then using more muscle fibers to generate upward movement. Think about it.
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Amen, Amen, Amen! This is the biggest hurdle I have as a HS strenght coach. Expensive pro-speed and conditioning shops sending kids back to me with bad information, like: dont squat too low, with too heavy a weight, or at all. Keep busting the myths Elliot.
attached a link – one of our best at a strength rep test, squating in our humble weight room – and some other stuff too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQUu-2MCsYM&feature=channel_page
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Good stuff Elliot! Love the way you present things. As for going atg I totally believe in it and try to get all my athletes as close as possible whether using a box or another technique. As far as stopping b4 that causing more fiber recruitment, we don’t recruit fibers we recruit motor units, and should we do this at the expense of knee health???? I don’t think so. Half squats and parallel squats have their place, but full range of motion squats promote joint health by not putting strain on joints that weren’t designed to stop at those places. Just my opinion. Thanks for responding to my email Elliot, keep up the good work!
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As a Man who has grown up in a rural environment and spent a lot of time camping,hiking and crapping out doors I can definitely say that is a VERY comfortable position to sit AND shit in.
I’ve always done my squats all the way down. I feel like I’m copping out and cheating my arse off if I go to parallel instead of all the way.
You’re a funny SOB!
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Elliott, I could have used 3 or 4 more different terms – such as duece or submarine (going 1960’s). Your crapping history is pretty accurate.
Is there is physiological reason for why mine doesn’t smell?
Ha, just kidding, good post, getting low!
-Joe
http://www.synergy-athletics.com
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Elliott, I would be afraid of putting a load in my shorts by not having my clothing out of the way!I watched the Vietnamese sit in the ass to the grass position for hours and they would pop up and shinny annie on down the road like you wouldn’t believe. Bill
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Hey Phil
Good to see someone wanting research. The issue I had with all the studies I read (Im a Physio) was that they did not separate later knee problems in patients who had done only squats vs the squats and leg extensions. There is a strong shearing force on the cruciates during leg extensions, so any study you read that says deep squats stuff up your knees please check and see if they excluded subjects who were doing leg extensions (a known cause of knee pathology!).
Keep challenging the establishment Elliot, I wish everyone was as blunt as you ;O)
Theo
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Thanks for telling the truth.
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Theo-I guess my issue wasn’t if going deep caused more knee problems, but what is best for hypertropy and strength gains. In other words, what causes greater muscle fiber recruitment.
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Tell it like it is man! Damn that’s funny (and true!).
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Do some real research before you post this kind of stuff- not just some little history lesson telling us that, “Hey! They used to do it thousands of years ago when they squatted around a fire, so that means it is perfectly fine.” What???!!! First of all, I’m pretty sure those people were not holding twice their body weight on their shoulders while this was happening (or however much you’re lifting). Second of all, who gives a damn if they used to sit around like that all day? That doesn’t make it good for your knees.
Point is…”parallel” is just a point of reference when squatting. When you squat low with so much weight on your shoulders, you need to balance yourself (unless you want to fall backwards). As a result, weight is transferred to different parts of your body to maintain this balance. Squatting without weight on your shoulders (like the people did around a fire?) does not require weight to be transferred in the same manner as it does when you have hundreds of pounds on your shoulders. When you go below “parallel” with so much weight, to stay balanced, weight is transferred to a certain part of your knee that causes great pressure to be inflicted on a concentrated area (take a physics course if you aren’t anatomically gifted).
This is just stupid- do whatever you want
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@ Michael – Although I had promised myself to NEVER respond to comments like this.
“This is just stupid- do whatever you want”
I thought that you might find this 3 part, “well referenced” article on squatting helpful:
part 1:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/07/28/fear-the-squat-part-one.aspx
part 2:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/07/31/fear-the-squat-part-two.aspx
part3:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/07/31/fear-the-squat2.aspx
Just for fun, here are 2 incredible athletes moving HUNDREDS of pounds over their body weight into a deep squat position. (granted, they are exceptional)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-1Z1mmJ1io
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwK-dE9HytI
Best!
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not only crapping like this is good for you….its also way hygenic and better for the enviornment….think about it…you dont sit on the same toilet seat as someone else( hygenic)…and therefore you use less paper ( toilet seat cover…..either paper or plastic…hence good for the enviornment)…..
also in Yoga….you do squat below parallel….
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Cheers Elliot!, watched this while having breakfast and it put me off my food!! lol
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Hi, interesting post. I have been pondering this issue,so thanks for writing. I’ll certainly be subscribing to your site.
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Elliott,
even though I agree that low squats by themselves are not harmful to the body, would you not agree that majority of the people that do “Ass to Grass” squats are performing them incorrectly by bouncing at the bottom? Personally I have strayed aways from close stance squats for the wide stance squats(typically to a box) and my lower body strength has increased dramatically faster than when I performed close stance. After a few months of doing box squats, I decided to max on close stance front squat and ended up hitting 500×1, which broke my previous PR of 400×2 and this was without even performing front squats since my last PR. I know this is only one example, but do you not see a benefit in wide stance parallel squats?
PS: I know you do not typically respond to comments, but I would be interested in your opinion even via email.
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Elliott
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May 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 am
@ Ryan — name sounds familiar… strongman?
the squat i am describing is mostly based on the “primal pattern” for functional daily use… it is tough to squat that low with 600 pounds
but, i do believe that EVERYONE who has legs need to ‘learn’ how to squat low, albeit with only bodyweight when necessary.
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Thanks for the reply elliott. So basically, your just saying that people need to be flexible enough to squat deep whether they utilize it in training all the time or not.
Yes, I do strongman. I actually weighed in at the exact same time as you for nationals in 2008. I remember you having to go “drop” some weight real quick. I won the 265 class and got 2nd in the HW Orlando show.
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@ Michael…. grrrrr.
Some more well referenced articles espousing the obvious benefits of deep squatting “with load”:
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/weight-training-weight-lifting/bill-starrs-5-x-5-program-variation-per-madcow2-thanx-so-here-k-up-now-375215-83.html#post5124176
LOTS more where those came from. If I can find it, I read an article from a biomechanics specialist who explained how the myth of deep squatting being ‘bad’ developed. I’ll do a search.
Thanks for the post!
Josh
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Love it Elliot, straight to the point
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Hey everybody,
I truely believe that squating full and deep is better. But what if I had meniscus problems, and cant really squat that low (doctor’s advice)?
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Nice! Now I have a much stronger argument for squating low when I have this discussion with people at the gym.
Thanks Elliot.
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I totally agree! I have had Piriformis Syndrome for 10 years so wide low squats really aggravated it, so I had to more narrow version, but I always to and go past parallel. Seriously, if you can squat heavy going that low, you have some serious legs!
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Squatting to parallel might come from powerlifting, where it’s the required depth, and going lower reduces the amount of weight you can use.
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Deep knee bends were “banished” from PT sessions when I was going through military boot camp in the 60’s.
My take has always been to abide by the rationale that … “if you don’t use it , you’ll lose it” !
Thanks for clearing that up Elliot — BTW / re: your “arm”-agedon; get well soon!
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I am a football coach and we have had a lot of knee injuries so far this year. Our head coach, who has Olympic lifting background has everyone squat (butt to the floor), these are some of the strongest kids I have ever seen. I know squatting to the floor makes you stronger, but that is specifically why I am worried. I asked the manager at 24 hour fitness and he said squatting below parallel is horrible for your knees. He continued on saying, “It should be OK if you are squatting light, but if you are squatting heavy, you are going to tear your knees up”. Our football coach thinks it is great while most would think it is Bad for your knees. I have been reading a good book, “Ready, Set, GO Synergy Fitness” It seems to be a well researched book. In the book on page 276, he quotes a study (Escamilla, RF. (2001). Knee biomechanics of the dynamic squat exercise.” Med Sci Sport Exerc Jan;33(1):127-41 PMID 11194098.) The results of this study by Duke University Medical Center in 2001 suggest squatting below parallel will increase the risk of knee injury. In his book, he goes on to say, “Don’t go below parallel on squats.” This seems like a recent study. I can agree that going below parallel without resistance weights is natural an normal in many cultures, age groups, etc. If squatting below parallel is good for you, why do we have so many injuries on our football team (Close to 10)? Secondly, why did a study from a credible institution recently come up with the same warnings? No doubt about it, squatting below parallel will make your knees super strong, expecialy the tendons, but could this backfire on an athlete. I am wondering if your tendons become too tight and too strong, maybe they are more vulnerable to snapping or tears (similar to tightening a guitar string too tightly, and then you slightly pluck the string and then it snaps)? Ive seen some athletes barely get hit, and their knee completely snapped ACL and all. I am trying to find the best answer. I have not made up my mind, but I thought these were good points to bring up.
Thanks,
Niko
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Elliott
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May 20th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Niko,
Two things to consider…
#1. Many “studies” are funded by exercise machine manufactures in order to prove that free weight exercises, such as the squat, should be avoided or limited and replaced with machine training…. ie The Smith Machine, etc.
#2. Yes, injury can occur when performing any full range of motion exercise with someone who has poor range of motion. If muscular imbalances are present then the potential for injury goes up. So is the movement bad or is it the person doing the movement?
Thank you for your comment!
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I have been squatting below parallel for about 32 years now with no injury whatsoever (I am now 60 years old and still squatting!). My max rep squat at the age of about 45 and weight of about 160 was 275 lbs for 20 reps, parallel or below parallel on every rep. I have not experienced any kind of knee injury in my 60 years.
I am thinking about wrestlers and all the lifting they use with an opponent off the dang mat, for heavens sake! Off their knees, in a deeeeep squat position, in a reverse gut wrench ass to the mat for a throw/lift, etc.
The human body is capable of amazing things. Don’t underestimate the performance of a well trained/conditioned athlete.
Those others that are contributing to “Zach Even-Esh’s” words “The Pussification of America” be damned.
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Absolutely, 100% agree with you Elliot. Good stuff…I especially like the way you put an exclamation point at the end of the video…hilarious!
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